Welcome to Club SAITO !
10-19-2018, 03:24 AM
Jim, my brother in law and I ran a full service automotive machine shop for about 12 years. He full time an myself only part time. We did skads of engines of all types. From Briggs to Cats, from 1915 Model T Fords to 1937 Packards and right on up to the engines of the 90s when my sister divorced him! Working in the shops years ago as Machine repair I did a few fork truck engines like Continental 4 banger flat heads similar to the Willys you mentioned. Also the big Hercules flat head "JXD" 6 cylinder engines and Chrysler Industrial 6 flat heads.
I did build a 1950 Merc flathead for my Model A Ford, sold that car soon afterwards and bought my 1940 Chevy Coupe in 1967. I had that car as a daily driver until I was 24 years old. Would love to find another one! Yep back in the hills OK, late night in the winter..But parked
10-19-2018, 10:28 AM
My Feedback: (1)
Pete, we took 6 photos last night of the 115's Eport, these 3 were the only ones worth keeping, in photo 1 you can see the Inside Edge the best.. Edit> in photo 3 you can see I am touching the Inside Edge with my pick tool..
Dave, filling the cylinder quickly is the result to what you described, this (of course) produces more torque, so porting the exhaust should result in loosing some low-in torque (but how much is the big question). Saito did a very good job of producing engines with an excellent Power Band, a while back I saw the OS 95V (15.563cc) Prop/RPM numbers, while the OS did rev the smaller prop at a bit higher than the Saito 100 (16.382cc) did, the Saito revved the larger prop higher than the OS did, with that the Saito has a more usable power band, people can argue the fact that the Saito is lager, but deign tech is more of a plus than simple displacement..
so knowing the 115 has the same Carb as the 100, for a performance gain modification I think one of the best things to do to the 115 would be to add a slightly larger Carb, that may result in loosing some low end torque, but unlike porting the exhaust port a slightly larger Carb will give the engine more fuel/more air.. BTW my 115 and my 100 use the same Header ID, I think the mufflers are the same too but I have not taken them apart..
One of the things that I would really like to see Saito do for up grading their engines is to increase the OD of their Tappets (Lifters), this would reduce a lot of friction there..
Jim
Saito does a body good
Last edited by the Wasp; 10-19-2018 at 10:53 AM.
10-19-2018, 10:49 AM
My Feedback: (1)
Gary, you must have been posting as I was typing.. your photo shows the port well, and the port is like the larger 100 and 115.. there is a lot inside that port to be remove if some one wishes too, but opening the exhaust port too much will be a big no-no.. but the engine could use more Input and get by for some one like me that just wants to zip around in war birds and scale racing planes
BTW, I sent you 2 PMs after I received the 115, did you get them??
Jim
BTW, I sent you 2 PMs after I received the 115, did you get them??
Jim
10-19-2018, 11:04 AM
So, is it RPM, or thrust that moves a plane? If a prop spinning at 9600 RPM that has a 10" pitch, how much thrust would it have over a prop spinning 10,500 with a 6" pitch? Doesn't the torque give the engine the ability to swing a much thrustier prop although at a slower speed? Trying to relate it to gearing. The lower gearing (higher numerically) allows an engine to run in its most efficient range to produce the torque needed to move something, so where do these engines and props fall into this ability? I know if you want speed, the faster the prop spins the better, 6" pitch move 6 inches per revolution(at least thats what I've been told), but when it comes to getting a heavy bird off the ground, slower speed and more thrust is needed, correct?
10-19-2018, 11:13 AM
My Feedback: (1)
Gary ?? wouldn't this Carb in my link work with Glow fuel ?? I would think it would, then it would be the thing to use for an inverted engine, what do you think ??
https://www.horizonhobby.com/carb-co...7-bm-saig17821
Jim
https://www.horizonhobby.com/carb-co...7-bm-saig17821
Jim
10-19-2018, 11:31 AM
My Feedback: (1)
So, is it RPM, or thrust that moves a plane? If a prop spinning at 9600 RPM that has a 10" pitch, how much thrust would it have over a prop spinning 10,500 with a 6" pitch? Doesn't the torque give the engine the ability to swing a much thrustier prop although at a slower speed? Trying to relate it to gearing. The lower gearing (higher numerically) allows an engine to run in its most efficient range to produce the torque needed to move something, so where do these engines and props fall into this ability? I know if you want speed, the faster the prop spins the better, 6" pitch move 6 inches per revolution(at least thats what I've been told), but when it comes to getting a heavy bird off the ground, slower speed and more thrust is needed, correct?
edited) Props Pull like a wing lifts, they do not produce thrust, the air flowing behind the prop is a byproduct of the Prop pulling in air,,
it's a combo of both pitch and RPM, but the more pitch the less efficient the prop is, and the smaller the prop the less it is efficient,, so more RPM helps.. the larger prop with less pitch is more efficient and pulls more air at lower RPM because the prop is larger,, asking on the "Extreme Speed Prop Planes" page will get you some good info,, I do know the guys that race the YS 115 like the 13X13 size prop, and I think that is the APC,, just know that in some of their classes they burn 60% Nitro,,
there must be a sight that explains much more and much better than I could ever do
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 10-19-2018 at 11:42 AM. Reason: sorry for the edits !! I'm old and wrinkly and have a grandchild
10-19-2018, 11:53 AM
My Feedback: (1)
here you go if this helps, but just know I have not seen it all yet so I don't know at this time what it tells us !!
speed it up to 3.30 to get to where they start talking about props
Jim
speed it up to 3.30 to get to where they start talking about props
Jim
10-19-2018, 12:20 PM
My Feedback: (1)
sorry guys, I got to go now, got to go to see the Doctor, my brain exploded while watching that video, talk to you tomorrow, if I can
Jim
Saito, do yourself a favor
Jim
Saito, do yourself a favor
10-20-2018, 04:57 AM
Well my experience with getting planes to go fast is to have lots of RPMS To get the speed But there’s always a balance to achieve between pitch and RPMS. Torque falls in there to but more for getting the prop spinning and keeping the rpms from falling off. Its all a balance.
Great video BTW. Says pretty much what I said. But we have an advantage in RC because of the smaller diameter props we have the ability to use a lot more rpms. Were on full size planes they are limited and have to go with wider, longer, and more blades to achieve that balance plus they have consistent speed props that they can adjust to help achieve that balance, thats the advantage they have.
Great video BTW. Says pretty much what I said. But we have an advantage in RC because of the smaller diameter props we have the ability to use a lot more rpms. Were on full size planes they are limited and have to go with wider, longer, and more blades to achieve that balance plus they have consistent speed props that they can adjust to help achieve that balance, thats the advantage they have.
10-20-2018, 08:24 AM
My Feedback: (102)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
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Running at 6,000 rpm
Saito 82-B with A on the right lug, schweet.
Saito 82-B new Boca Bearings and lifters.
Home made velocity stack.
Fuel=====Wildcat 10% with 18% full syn.
Plug=====Fox Miracle previously used in a Saito 56
Prop=====Graupner G-Sonic 14 x 7
Exhaust==Stock revised muffler
Idle=====1,770 rpm
Max rpm=9,150 one click rich of a wandering 9,175
Perfectly smooth and smokeless mid range and transition, you did a great job on the LS needle Cap.
Last edited by Hobbsy; 10-20-2018 at 08:36 AM.
10-20-2018, 11:45 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
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As DMRC would say, a quick run on a Saito early 56
Saito 56 plain
Fuel Wildcat=========10% with 18% full syn.
Plug===============OS-f
Exhaust============Stock/revised muffler
Prop==============Graupner G-Sonic 12 xx 6
Max rpm===========10,970 rpm
Idle===============-1,810 rpm
And that's the short of it.
Saito 56 plain
Fuel Wildcat=========10% with 18% full syn.
Plug===============OS-f
Exhaust============Stock/revised muffler
Prop==============Graupner G-Sonic 12 xx 6
Max rpm===========10,970 rpm
Idle===============-1,810 rpm
And that's the short of it.
10-20-2018, 06:17 PM
My Feedback: (1)
did you hear what they said in that video, for the War Birds, "to get more speed they went to a 3 blade prop, then to a 4 blade prop",, well my point is that all I have ever read on these forums is that the 3 and 4 blade prop are less efficient than a 2 blade is,, so could it be that even tho 3 blade props are less efficient they still pull more air ??
Jim
more than a few people have heard Denny Crane say that "it's Saito for him or it's nothing"
Jim
more than a few people have heard Denny Crane say that "it's Saito for him or it's nothing"
10-20-2018, 06:50 PM
did you hear what they said in that video, for the War Birds, "to get more speed they went to a 3 blade prop, then to a 4 blade prop",, well my point is that all I have ever read on these forums is that the 3 and 4 blade prop are less efficient than a 2 blade is,, so could it be that even tho 3 blade props are less efficient they still pull more air ??
Jim
more than a few people have heard Denny Crane say that "it's Saito for him or it's nothing"
Jim
more than a few people have heard Denny Crane say that "it's Saito for him or it's nothing"
max rpm’s on most full size plane’s are in the 2300-2800 rpms so the blades have time to grab clean air. But for the small stuff like we use we are turning anywere from 9,000-30,000 rpm’s so the blades don’t have time to grab clean air. I don’t know if you have ever heard that the control line speed guys use a single blade prop.
10-20-2018, 07:05 PM
My Feedback: (1)
yes under stand those old engines didn't turn up much,,
so if some one works a Saito over a bit and brings up it's RPM a bit he could run a 3 blade with the same pitch and still have some good speed, that would be nice for my VQ P-40
edit) funny thing, my 46 size World Models P-40 came with a over sized, scale 3 blade P-40 Spinner, but it's a better fit to my VQ P-40, so I will use it on the VQ, I will need a 3 blade prop
Jim
so if some one works a Saito over a bit and brings up it's RPM a bit he could run a 3 blade with the same pitch and still have some good speed, that would be nice for my VQ P-40
edit) funny thing, my 46 size World Models P-40 came with a over sized, scale 3 blade P-40 Spinner, but it's a better fit to my VQ P-40, so I will use it on the VQ, I will need a 3 blade prop
Jim
Last edited by the Wasp; 10-20-2018 at 07:11 PM.
10-20-2018, 07:11 PM
thats basically what i’m do For the p51. I do admit i was surprised at the r’s i got out of the 65. I do need to prop that down a bit, and i will. It would be nice to unload around 10,000 in the air with a 11X12-14. But i nees to get those to props and see what i can turn static. Then go from there
10-20-2018, 11:32 PM
THAT"S because i was in full on recovery mode saturday afternoon drinking alcohol 
to calm the nerves.Been looking at toyota lexus is250's but a respected friend suggested i should look at the toyota 3.5ltr v6 aurien prodigy,then i remembered i knew an ex rally driver that still owned a supercharged v6 aurien trd(toyota racing department) road registered car so i called him up and we went for a ride.Front wheel drive car meets shed loads of horsepower and terrified passenger.Hope the dr appointment went smoothly.Do you think it's possible to do a cross reference/cheater chart for graupner to apc prop.
Gary excellent pics on the saito sectioned head thanks heaps mate.
ps jim i got a brainteaser for you if you can put a big dent in the intake tube and not suffer any performance loss is it a one off or what?
to calm the nerves.Been looking at toyota lexus is250's but a respected friend suggested i should look at the toyota 3.5ltr v6 aurien prodigy,then i remembered i knew an ex rally driver that still owned a supercharged v6 aurien trd(toyota racing department) road registered car so i called him up and we went for a ride.Front wheel drive car meets shed loads of horsepower and terrified passenger.Hope the dr appointment went smoothly.Do you think it's possible to do a cross reference/cheater chart for graupner to apc prop.Gary excellent pics on the saito sectioned head thanks heaps mate.
ps jim i got a brainteaser for you
if you can put a big dent in the intake tube and not suffer any performance loss is it a one off or what?